我在某个论坛发了一个关于垃圾袋的帖子，问为什么新加坡超市还在使用这么多塑料袋。（上海和深圳已经开始塑料袋收费了，鼓励人们重复使用塑料袋或是自己的购物袋）
以下是延伸的讨论：Ａ是我，Ｂ是某跟帖者(英国人）
欢迎参与环保和社会话题讨论:)
B: Well :), the blunt answer is that the majority of SGns are so busy grasping for the 5C’s that they couldn’t give a toss about the environment.
Walk to the MRT past HDB blocks at 5am and witness the daily detritus of sanitary pads chicken bones Kleenexe and orange peel that has been thrown from windows.
A: Thought you’ll get fined if you throw anything in a public place? So what is this scenario at 5am around HDB blocks?
B: Only if there is someone to catch you. Behaviour is moderated by fines. No risk of fines…? who cares? In fact the cynic in me suggests that some SGns probably enjoy the kiasuism of throwing trash knowing that they will not be caught.
A: Sure, behaviours are moderated by fines, crime is moderated by law, not much different.
B: Eau dear 😛 You have moved from an essentially extremely formal and civic society to a wanton Chinese free-for-all. In time you will understand.
A: I come from a much more complicated society (China) than Germany, so I have seen more Huntun than you can imagine. 😛
B: Gosh SGns must seem civilised to you! lol
A: Always depends on with what you compare. I’ve travelled all continents, have seen extremly bad things. I’m definitely not the one who is so fragile. :lolThe difference is always the gap between what you get and what you expect. If I live now in Indian, I’ll not talk about plastic bags, but I live in Singapore now.
What I heard and read blah blah is about how organized the Sin society is, I thought it must be so perfect. But just an example, I’m probably the only driver to wait and let the pedestrians cross the streets… The old people have to work nonstop in the airport and food courts, heard they don’t have pension or just too less to survive….
A: What I want to say is: essentially extremely formal and civic society is regulated by law.
B: But Germany does not need to fine people for not flushing a public toilet. Consider why
A: Have you heard of an old story about 50 steps and 100 steps? try to google it.
BTW I found the English idiom for the old story “50 steps laught at 100 steps”: a pot calls the kettle black. I do like it :lol
Well, not in the extrem case of flushing a toilet, but more or less. Imagine what would happen without so many laws and provisions. You should know in the world the most laws and provisions are written in German. Why?
A: Do you know the MNC will try to take advantage of those societies if law is incomplete there or there is law but it’s not strictly followed? I know many of these. Without law restriction, will they really talk about ethic??
B: Is it just MNCs or all companies? In fact is it all companies, or individual/sole traders as well? In fact in your eyes are people parasites on society? Do these parasites need to elect other parasite-controllers in order to control their parasitical tendencies?
A: Talking about MNC is because they act differently in different countries.
I just saw the same companies which grant all the rights to their German employees but not to the employees in other countries where no law asks them to do so. They take the advantages. You must also know Adidas has used child labor indirectly in Indonesia before… Will they dare to do that in Germany or not to control their subcontractors?? That’s the reality, believe it or not.
Don’t try to put the words into my mouth, that’s your understanding of parasites.
话题又延伸到再生能源的．Ａ还是我，Ｂ还是那位英国人，
B: Yup, this is how these bags are recycled – by the end consumer who uses them for his rubbish bin. As mentioned we really put them to great use by not buying regular rubbish bags instead.
Trouble is that there is a total lack of joined up thinking.
If people don’t get carrier bags at the shop, what will they throw rubbish out in? Er, they will have to buy plastic bags.
If people drive electric cars where does the power come from? Er, coal fired power stations.
Because wind power is not predictable, that supply is not dependable and so what is the result? Er, coal, gas and nuclear have to run at full capacity as a back-up 24/7/365.
Joined up thinking? Bureaucrats tick their own single box and declare the job is done. It is moronic, and expensive.
Surprisingly most ‘sheeple’ seem happy even eager to go along with this nonsense.
A: I absolutely agree with you. But it seems the e-car market should have its advantage by using renewable energy.
B: …..p.s. What is renewable energy?
A: You don’t really need an answer, do you?
B: Er… windmills need 24/7/365 power station back-up. Electric cars get electricty from the same. Can you explain what is renewable please?
A: Then tell me what’s behind….intrigue. Or you want to say they are all stupid. 😛
B: You mean what is behind ‘climate change’ and all of that? Well, they call them watermelons don’t they? Green on the outside, red inside. Anyone you meet that supports it is either making a living from it, or stupid (sheeple (refer seperate complex side discussion re: false religions and Western self-hatred)). It is down to taking money from the successful.
A: I can’t agree on you. I just can say people or country who don’t support or are against it are either considering their own interest or blind(?) :lol
没人对环保或社会话题感兴趣吗？:dizzy:
这个我会~ 五十步不要笑一百步的英文是。。。。A don’t laugh at B, both are alphabets…
嗯嗯，站好队，别歪了。:lol
但是我更喜欢a pot calls the kettle black:lol
更形象，哈哈，罐笑壶黑，多有意思啊，你还说我黑？:lol
首先， 叫有钱人改变生活方式。
P 民所带来的问题不及他们的1/10。
有道理。这位英国人宣称美国人很环保。我说这是天大的笑话。
他说：
B: I live in Germany, and I have never seen a paper bag! Last time I saw a paper bag was in NYC where at check out they routinely ask if you want ‘paper or plastic?’. Dang, those Americans are so environmentally responsible
我说：
A: I know you can get them from Marktkauf for carrying (for free), Norma (for free), Ebl etc. In many supermarkets you can choose plastic or paper, for free or buying, but for plastic bags you always have to pay! Also can buy the paper bags in the supermarket. My neighbours and I always used them for orgnic waste. Americans are so environmentally responsible??? That must be the biggest joke I ever heard. Talking about Kyoto Protocol!!! You must also read they are the energy guzzler, their cars, their way of living, the highest consume of energy per capita
从工业社会开始， 人类所干的事情， 就是最终毁灭人类。
勇敢的面对事实2012的到来
有钱买那个票吗？:P
其实要解决温室效应很简单，世界的牛少一半，胖子都拉去减肥。。。
这个不是我说的，是真的有研究的。。。
环保在新加坡不能广泛推行，因为牵扯到很多利益纷争。
任何环保型材料皆是。
例，玻璃
任何玻璃瓶都一文不值，每个人直接丢进垃圾桶，到了垃圾场分类，回收公司抢的你死我活。
因为玻璃太贵了，但他们绝对不希望每个民众都养成保留任何可以再循环产品 然后再卖给垃圾回收者的习惯。
回收公司总保持在第一回收位置，省住成本，高利润转卖给酒商或出口玻璃制品者。
酒商回收旧酒瓶，低成本只需高压清洗消毒程序，直接灌装，原价于消费者。
长久结论 经营者 成本利润第一
消费者 无环保意识
我曾经和朋友建议
回收公司可以在全岛组屋设置自然分类回收箱，大家自觉丢置废纸旧书，回收公司可以每3个月回馈给居民每户一包A4白纸，适回收量调整。地区性试其可行性。互利中培养环保习惯。
朋友说 不可能
那个，我就想说现在全中国的超市都实行收费制了吧。
“I’ve travelled all continents, have seen extremly bad things. I’m definitely not the one who is so fragile.”
是吗，都有什么见闻，可以说出来听听吗？
mm了解很多，谢谢告知。
玻璃瓶还是回收的？不管是否省去中间环节，重要的是回收再利用了就好。
你的建议很不错，但人类的惰性不可药救。利诱太小了啊！:lol
不过我们condo有专门的垃圾箱给废纸。
这个，我还真不知道。只是亲身体验到上海和深圳。
回复 Chloe2011 的帖子
一切就让他顺其自然吧
这里话题是环保和社会，不是谈旅游见闻。有时间再另外开帖。
队伍不要变形。:lol
那就静候新帖。。。环保自己做的不太好，就多听少说了。。。
环境问题。。。都是讨论的多，实施的少。。。现在的技术还不能够让环保产业产生巨大的经济效益。。。在现在这个物质当道，活在当下的社会。。。自然是活跃不起来的。。。所以我读这个专业的时候是人都说大有前途，当我毕业的时候，却找不到工作。。。
回复 taylorMaking 的帖子
这个回答太给力了
怎么可能？:funk:
我也是认为这个肯定特好找工作啊！连这个产业的股票都那么好形势。
那你现在在这个行业做吗？
好像这个产业的股票不好也，很一般， 至少在新加坡是如此
没有，自从毕业就没做过。楼主说的意思的小部分的人和小部分的企业。这样说吧。读IT毕业的多数都能找份相关的工作，不管好坏。读环保毕业的多数都做别的行业去了，除非他爸是李刚，那么就安排个环保局的闲差。当然每个行业的顶尖人才都是不愁工作的~~
中国向人们收塑胶袋的钱主要是抓住了国人的心理，超市主要都是抱着赚钱的态度，哪一个中国老百姓愿意花2毛钱去买呢？？？当然同时也环保。但是更多过日子的人，还是喜欢去菜市场买菜，菜市场少不了塑胶袋。还有可能是南北方的差异在里面，我说的是北方的现状，真正过日子的老百姓是不会在易这些问题的，都是能省则省，能坐车不打车，出门在外能自己带水就不买饮料，能省一毛就是一毛。新加坡人需要塑胶袋，我想是因为他们需要塑胶袋，他们的家里真的是很干净，每个屋子都有垃圾桶，每天都要换。fairprice也有1-2个cashier是不提供塑胶袋的，只是很少人知道。新加坡人的心理就是我能拿到塑胶袋，为什么还要去排不提供塑胶袋的窗口呢？反正是免费的。可能他们改了政策，也对塑胶袋收费，那就不一样了吧。
看到一些可笑的借口，悲哀~~支持楼主！
我就一直在用环保袋购物，至少我所看到的香港深圳的居民都有这习惯和素质觉悟，在香港超市买完东西不用塑胶袋收银员都会说句“多谢支持环保”，顾客们也会觉得温馨又乐意，受过高等教育，做人怎可以对社会没有一点的责任感？！
同感，现在环保是国家重点支持项目（在全球都是），推出很多利惠政策来扶持，凡是跟环保有关的项目都受优待和保护，属于大财团抢着投资投标的好项目，我们总公司旗下也有这投资，业绩好得很